Can I Use Car Battery for Backup Sump Pump
| Ars Tribunus Militum Tribus: Pittsburgh, PA, US Registered: Feb 20, 1999 Posts: 2277 | |
| Quick electrical question - The only thing standing between the water from the hurricane and my basement is a very overworked sump pump. The water is literally pouring in, at about the speed of a faucet on full blast (you can see it coming in from a couple of holes in the wall). There is no battery backup on the sump pump. It appears to run off of a normal wall plug. If the power goes out, is there any way that I could hook up the sump pump to a car battery? I also have the battery backup for my PC, which is fully charged but not huge (an APC Back-UPS X1500) and one of those car jump-start batteries (and a cheap inverter). Do you think that either of those will power the sump pump? Or, should I just say goodbye to my basement? |
| "Manual Labor" Tribus: Redwood City, CA Registered: Aug 7, 2001 Posts: 12574 | |
| The UPS would, for a while at least. A car battery would not, at least not directly. They do make 12V water pumps that can be used with a battery-bank/charger setup -- often based on bilge pumps from boats. My grandparents had a setup like that in their basement, since they often did lose power at the same time they were getting heavy rain. |
| Ars Tribunus Militum Tribus: Pittsburgh, PA, US Registered: Feb 20, 1999 Posts: 2277 | |
| Would the car battery work hooked directly to the inverter, do you think? I went and checked, and the inverter says 400 watt. |
| "Nominally titular." Tribus: Let's do capitalism to it! Registered: Apr 27, 2000 Posts: 18563 | |
| I don't see any harm in trying to run the pump off your car battery - or jump-start battery - through the inverter if it comes down to it. Depending entirely on the details of how much the sump pump draws, how much current the inverter handles, how much charge is in each battery, etc., it very well might be enough to get by. |
| Ars Legatus Legionis Registered: Feb 22, 1999 Posts: 11777 | |
| Might be a bit late and you'll be gouged, but get a small camping style generator. Quote: Would the car battery work hooked directly to the inverter, do you think? I went and checked, and the inverter says 400 watt Depends on what voltage the inverter is designed to operate with. |
| Ars Praefectus Tribus: SF Bay Area Registered: Nov 1, 2005 Posts: 4381 | |
| AER wrote: Quick electrical question - The only thing standing between the water from the hurricane and my basement is a very overworked sump pump. The water is literally pouring in, at about the speed of a faucet on full blast (you can see it coming in from a couple of holes in the wall). There is no battery backup on the sump pump. It appears to run off of a normal wall plug. If the power goes out, is there any way that I could hook up the sump pump to a car battery? I also have the battery backup for my PC, which is fully charged but not huge (an APC Back-UPS X1500) and one of those car jump-start batteries (and a cheap inverter). Do you think that either of those will power the sump pump? If you do use a battery, you'd ideally want a deep cycle battery rather than a car battery: car batteries are designed to push high amps out to crank an engine but not to have lots of reserve power through many charge and discharge cycles. Unless the sump pump has an external wall wart on the plug (in which case it might be marked 12V) you probably don't want to mess with it. You could buy another sump pump that works on DC (12V). I don't know how big your pump is but the power requirements when it starts up (surge current) might be an awful lot for a PC UPS to handle (or a cheapo Radio Shack inverter to take 12V DC->120V AC). There are also pumps which operate on water pressure (inline with a hose) but it sounds like it's too late for a shopping run. |
| "Talkin' to lurkers Tribus: Seattle Registered: Jun 14, 2006 Posts: 17869 | |
| Yeah, you want a marine battery not a car battery. It's almost impossible to find such things this late, though, so you really ought to move anything in the basement to higher ground NOW. If possible, have a friend/family member do that while getting what supplies you are able to find. |
| Ars Tribunus Militum Tribus: Pittsburgh, PA, US Registered: Feb 20, 1999 Posts: 2277 | |
| Yep, unfortunately there is a travel ban and all of the stores are closed. The pump does not have a wall wart -- it has a normal wall plug. I think I am going to focus my immediate efforts in getting back there to stuff plastic bags in the holes (on the advice of a family member), then I will start moving stuff up out of the way |
| Registered: Feb 23, 2000 Posts: 35492 | |
| when my grandmother's house flooded (ten years ago?) in whatever hurricane that was, i brought my smart ups 1500 over. plugged in the sump pump, drained the basement right out. |
| "Talkin' to lurkers Tribus: Seattle Registered: Jun 14, 2006 Posts: 17869 | |
| AER wrote: Yep, unfortunately there is a travel ban and all of the stores are closed. The pump does not have a wall wart -- it has a normal wall plug. I think I am going to focus my immediate efforts in getting back there to stuff plastic bags in the holes (on the advice of a family member), then I will start moving stuff up out of the way You cannot fight that sort of water flow with plastic bags. MOVE YOUR STUFF NOW! Edit: I've had a basement I fought for years that had major issues with drainage. There was there an underground stream in the back yard that saturated the soil and caused leaks like you're talking about. In addition, the grade at the driveway to the street was such that we got all the runoff from several blocks flowing into the basement. Trust me ... you cannot fight water flowing in like that now. You move stuff ... period. | |
| Last edited by Nilt on Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:54 pm |
| "Formerly Arcturus" Tribus: here Registered: Mar 11, 2004 Posts: 6029 | |
| The inverter will power your sump pump if you keep the car running. You have a full tank of gas, right? |
| "Rural Technologist" Tribus: North of the Snake Registered: Dec 5, 2002 Posts: 25002 | |
| AER wrote: Would the car battery work hooked directly to the inverter, do you think? I went and checked, and the inverter says 400 watt. Try it & find out. You're probably going to be drawing a LOT more than 400W for a sump pump, though. They draw 700-800W under load. The inverter will likely trip out instantly. If it doesn't, it should at least help with the water. It's not going to be good for the car battery, but water isn't good for your basement, so it's worth a shot. |
| "Rural Technologist" Tribus: North of the Snake Registered: Dec 5, 2002 Posts: 25002 | |
| pauli wrote: when my grandmother's house flooded (ten years ago?) in whatever hurricane that was, i brought my smart ups 1500 over. plugged in the sump pump, drained the basement right out. Actually, that's a good point. I've got a 1500VA UPS, and it's rated for an 800+W draw. That *will* likely run a sump pump. Moreso than the inverter. It's godawful inefficient, but you might be best off trying to charge the UPS off the inverter (with no draw on the output side), and running the sump pump off the UPS. I'd say you could hook the battery directly to the UPS for more inverter power, but the XS1500 is a 24v system, not a 12v system. |
| Ars Legatus Legionis Registered: May 11, 2000 Posts: 33592 | |
| AER wrote: Yep, unfortunately there is a travel ban and all of the stores are closed. The pump does not have a wall wart -- it has a normal wall plug. I think I am going to focus my immediate efforts in getting back there to stuff plastic bags in the holes (on the advice of a family member), then I will start moving stuff up out of the way Plastic bags stuffed in holes are no match for hydrolic pressure. A much better use for the bags is to put items you care about in them and carry them upstairs. |
| Ars Tribunus Militum Tribus: Pittsburgh, PA, US Registered: Feb 20, 1999 Posts: 2277 | |
| Ok, everything is cleaned up down there, nothing to float or jam the pump, and the water actually stopped on its own (because the rain died down). So, I am good to go :-) |
| "Talkin' to lurkers Tribus: Seattle Registered: Jun 14, 2006 Posts: 17869 | |
| Nice. Be aware of seepage and such for the next while though. The soil is probably beginnign to saturate and you may get more. Good luck and stay safe. |
| Ars Legatus Legionis Registered: May 11, 2000 Posts: 33592 | |
| AER wrote: Ok, everything is cleaned up down there, nothing to float or jam the pump, and the water actually stopped on its own (because the rain died down). So, I am good to go :-) Good news Get a water pressure backup system for your sump pump so you don't have this anxiety next time. |
| "Set Phasers to beard." Registered: Sep 6, 2000 Posts: 5763 | |
| Disaster averted but yeah, you need a hefty UPS to keep a sump pump working. We installed a water pressure backup pump. No electricity needed. This is it's first test so we'll see. Not home to even know. I've got to stop watching the news. |
| "Talkin' to lurkers Tribus: Seattle Registered: Jun 14, 2006 Posts: 17869 | |
| Captain Riker wrote: Disaster averted but yeah, you need a hefty UPS to keep a sump pump working. We installed a water pressure backup pump. No electricity needed. This is it's first test so we'll see. Not home to even know. I've got to stop watching the news. The water pressure pumps are great for backup but never use one as a main solution. They aren't as efficient and sometimes can't keep up. |
| Ars Legatus Legionis Registered: Aug 15, 2000 Posts: 48634 | |
| AER wrote: Yep, unfortunately there is a travel ban and all of the stores are closed. Is your tribus accurate? I'm not aware of any travel bans in the Pittsburgh region. |
| "6.86 posts per week" Tribus: DC Registered: Nov 25, 2000 Posts: 5745 | |
| I would definitely consider a small portable inverter generator like the Honda eu2000i. I've got it running my fridge currently (figured out it had the capacity) in addition to Internet modem, laptop and the fish tank heater. At 2000 watts, 120V it should be able to run a sump pump (like 1/3 HP, 800 watts running, 1300 starting). I went through a tragic flood of my mom's basement due to the sump pump flipping a circuit breaker (idiot bil had plugged in a dehumidifier on the same circuit). I installed an alarm after that, but the damage had been done and many boxes of valuable books had been ruined. Personally, I would not buy a home with any water issues in the basement or one that had a sump pump. I realize that they are common in many areas, but I just wouldn't buy one (and I advised my mom against buying hers at the time for that reason and others to no avail). |
| "Population: Tire" Registered: Jun 22, 2001 Posts: 21197 | |
| Quote: Personally, I would not buy a home with any water issues in the basement or one that had a sump pump. I realize that they are common in many areas, but I just wouldn't buy one (and I advised my mom against buying hers at the time for that reason and others to no avail). Ditto. This makes it hard to buy a home in New England, since most anything on a hill automatically costs far more than lower-lying properties. |
| Ars Legatus Legionis Registered: May 11, 2000 Posts: 33592 | |
| Quote: Personally, I would not buy a home with any water issues in the basement or one that had a sump pump. I realize that they are common in many areas, but I just wouldn't buy one (and I advised my mom against buying hers at the time for that reason and others to no avail). Which means buying a home with no basement. In the NE there are two types of basements: Those that have water leakage, and those that don't have water leakage yet. It's really not that big a deal. Basements get wet, you clean them up. If they get really wet, you install a system to deal with it. As long as you take sensible measures and have appropriate backups in place, it's not a problem. |
| "6.86 posts per week" Tribus: DC Registered: Nov 25, 2000 Posts: 5745 | |
| Emkorial wrote: Quote: Personally, I would not buy a home with any water issues in the basement or one that had a sump pump. I realize that they are common in many areas, but I just wouldn't buy one (and I advised my mom against buying hers at the time for that reason and others to no avail). Which means buying a home with no basement. In the NE there are two types of basements: Those that have water leakage, and those that don't have water leakage yet. It's really not that big a deal. Basements get wet, you clean them up. If they get really wet, you install a system to deal with it. As long as you take sensible measures and have appropriate backups in place, it's not a problem. Yes, I guess the basement in my 1870 farmhouse in the NE and our 1927 bungalow are going to develop water problems any time now |
| Ars Legatus Legionis Registered: May 11, 2000 Posts: 33592 | |
| Quote: Yes, I guess the basement in my 1870 farmhouse in the NE and our 1927 bungalow are going to develop water problems any time now Someday they will. All water prevention method eventually fail. French drains get clogged, tar and rubber coatings rot, concrete and mortar crack. Water carved the fucking grand canyon. Your basement isn't going to stop it forever. |
| "6.86 posts per week" Tribus: DC Registered: Nov 25, 2000 Posts: 5745 | |
| Emkorial wrote: Quote: Yes, I guess the basement in my 1870 farmhouse in the NE and our 1927 bungalow are going to develop water problems any time now Someday they will. All water prevention method eventually fail. French drains get clogged, tar and rubber coatings rot, concrete and mortar crack. Water carved the fucking grand canyon. Your basement isn't going to stop it forever. Or you could just keep the ground around you structure graded and gutter water directed so water flows away from it. |
| "Population: Tire" Registered: Jun 22, 2001 Posts: 21197 | |
| Quote: Someday they will. Without maintenance and over a long-enough timeline, yes. Then again, everything can happen under those circumstances. |
| Ars Tribunus Militum Tribus: Pittsburgh, PA, US Registered: Feb 20, 1999 Posts: 2277 | |
| eXceLon wrote: AER wrote: Yep, unfortunately there is a travel ban and all of the stores are closed. Is your tribus accurate? I'm not aware of any travel bans in the Pittsburgh region. Nope, I need to update that. I'm in Wilmington, Delaware. |
| "Set Phasers to beard." Registered: Sep 6, 2000 Posts: 5763 | |
| Nilt wrote: Captain Riker wrote: Disaster averted but yeah, you need a hefty UPS to keep a sump pump working. We installed a water pressure backup pump. No electricity needed. This is it's first test so we'll see. Not home to even know. I've got to stop watching the news. The water pressure pumps are great for backup but never use one as a main solution. They aren't as efficient and sometimes can't keep up. Yeah, but still way better than battery backup which is prone to other problems like batteries weakening or such. But we have an electric pump as primary (hence the word backup in my comment We survived with no water in the basement though!! |
)| "Talkin' to lurkers Tribus: Seattle Registered: Jun 14, 2006 Posts: 17869 | |
| Captain Riker wrote: Nilt wrote: Captain Riker wrote: Disaster averted but yeah, you need a hefty UPS to keep a sump pump working. We installed a water pressure backup pump. No electricity needed. This is it's first test so we'll see. Not home to even know. I've got to stop watching the news. The water pressure pumps are great for backup but never use one as a main solution. They aren't as efficient and sometimes can't keep up. Yeah, but still way better than battery backup which is prone to other problems like batteries weakening or such. But we have an electric pump as primary (hence the word backup in my comment Oh, absolutely. I've seen some folks try to use them as a primary, though, which is why I mentioned it. Sorry for the confusion. Quote: We survived with no water in the basement though!! WOO! |
| "Rural Technologist" Tribus: North of the Snake Registered: Dec 5, 2002 Posts: 25002 | |
| I really need to build an exercise bike pump attachment... |
| Ars Tribunus Militum Tribus: Northern Virginia Registered: Jan 25, 2000 Posts: 2125 | |
| I just moved into our house in August, and I didnt realize how exposed we are should the power go out. I have an electric sump pump in a regular 120V outlet. It'd run about twice a minute for 8 seconds. I popped it open and saw just how much water was coming in through the drain pipes and estimated I'd have roughly two minutes from the time the power failed before the pit would overflow. So, I plugged in my 1500VA APC unit and let it try to handle the pump itself. Shut off 1 second into a cycle. Plugged it into the wall and saw it draw 950W for the first second and take 750W for the remaining 7 seconds. Crap. My only backup plan was to empty our basement of stuff and run a 100' hose from the sump pit to the far corner of my lot. I bought a phone app called "blackout" that would alarm if the power went out. If that happened, I'd open the window to the basement, drop the hose down in, and run out to the end of my yard and start sucking (heh). Thankfully, the power never went out and plan B was not necessary. I'm now seriously weighing battery backup and/or other backup options. Advice on this? What to get? |
| Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius Registered: Mar 25, 2000 Posts: 6232 | |
| Geese wrote: My only backup plan was to empty our basement of stuff and run a 100' hose from the sump pit to the far corner of my lot. I bought a phone app called "blackout" that would alarm if the power went out. If that happened, I'd open the window to the basement, drop the hose down in, and run out to the end of my yard and start sucking (heh). Instead of sucking on the hose, an easy trick is to get two hoses (one long, one shorter) and a female-female junction. Connect the shorter hose to the faucet, then join the longer hose to the shorter hose. Put the junction in the sump pit, and run the longer hose to wherever is lower than that on your property. Turn on the faucet, and once you have water throughout the hose and it's coming out the end, you disconnect them while they are submerged in the sump. An easy way to prime the hose that doesn't involve breaking capillaries in your lungs. |
| "ಠ_ಠ" Tribus: Gilroy, CA Registered: Oct 8, 1999 Posts: 17357 | |
| Syonyk wrote: I really need to build a Buell-powered pump attachment... |
| "Talkin' to lurkers Tribus: Seattle Registered: Jun 14, 2006 Posts: 17869 | |
| Geese wrote: I just moved into our house in August, and I didnt realize how exposed we are should the power go out. I have an electric sump pump in a regular 120V outlet. It'd run about twice a minute for 8 seconds. I popped it open and saw just how much water was coming in through the drain pipes and estimated I'd have roughly two minutes from the time the power failed before the pit would overflow. So, I plugged in my 1500VA APC unit and let it try to handle the pump itself. Shut off 1 second into a cycle. Plugged it into the wall and saw it draw 950W for the first second and take 750W for the remaining 7 seconds. Crap. My only backup plan was to empty our basement of stuff and run a 100' hose from the sump pit to the far corner of my lot. I bought a phone app called "blackout" that would alarm if the power went out. If that happened, I'd open the window to the basement, drop the hose down in, and run out to the end of my yard and start sucking (heh). Thankfully, the power never went out and plan B was not necessary. I'm now seriously weighing battery backup and/or other backup options. Advice on this? What to get? Don't rely on power at all. USe the appropriate solution. That's just the first result off Google for "water powered sump pump", by the way. |
| ""Meh"" Tribus: Texas Recidivist Registered: Jul 28, 2006 Posts: 12217 | |
| Using drinkable water to move flood water seems... counter-productive and possibly unethical in a disaster. But then my only experience with basements was in Denver, where water conservation tends to be a bigger concern than rain flooding your basement. I don't think we even had a sump pump. |
| "Talkin' to lurkers Tribus: Seattle Registered: Jun 14, 2006 Posts: 17869 | |
| WDReinhart wrote: Using drinkable water to move flood water seems... counter-productive and possibly unethical in a disaster. But then my only experience with basements was in Denver, where water conservation tends to be a bigger concern than rain flooding your basement. I don't think we even had a sump pump. Yeah, when there's enough rainfall to flood your house and knock out power, water conservation is a non-issue. That's part of why it's a backup, too, aside from the fact that it's not as efficient as a regular one. |
Can I Use Car Battery for Backup Sump Pump
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